You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join our community today!
If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact contact us.
As the 2008 drafted started and the top 7 players went off the board no suprises had happened and Lions fans everywhere had their eyes on two names that it was widely known the coaching staff loved, Derrick Harvey and Jerod Mayo... Then things went into the doomsday scenario, at #8 Jacksonville trading all the way up from #26 to take Derrick Harvey, then New England after a trade down takes Jerod Mayo at #10 overall.
Needless to say that took away any sense of a feel anyone had for the Lions 1st round draft plans, but blue chip OT prospects Ryan Clady, and Chris Williams were both still available at #11, but they were quickly taken at #12 and #14 respectively. That left Detroit at #15 with the top 3 OTs off the board, and their two top targets long gone, every Detroit fan that has experienced a Millen run draft immediately thought skill position pick and Rashard Mendenhall, so much for the Lions finally upgrading in the trenches i thought, everyone thought the pick would be Mendenhall, then word came the Lions traded back to #17, Brandon Albert (OL) was selected at #15 and then Rodgers-Cromartie (CB), and the Lions sat at #17 still with Mendenhall available but somehow they controlled Millen or Millen himself controlled his impulse to take the flashy player, and instead took probably the best OT on the board in Gosder Cherilus, the big, long armed, mauling RT with a mean streak out of Boston College, and the first and perhaps biggest hole was filled... Fans attention immediately went to the other holes RB, MLB, DE.
Gosder Cherilus 6'7 315, is a tall RT with long arms, uses his strength well to jar defenders with his hands in pass protection, and can drive and maul defenders out of running lanes well, one of the few OTs with good physical talent and a mean streak to finish his blocks with consistancy.
His downside is poor footwork in pass protection at times, causes him to lower his arms at times for balance and lets defenders gain leverage, this chain reaction has caused him problems when play at LT and facing speed rushers, when he does have good footwork and uses his hands his length allows him to be a adequate pass protector.
The arguement will be made why trade down and take Cherilus and not take Brandon Albert at #15, and personally i think it comes down to preferance and need, Albert is a more raw player who has the ability to play LT or RT but most of his experience is at OG, Cherilus is a pure RT who is already experienced there and can play it at a high level, IMO if they wanted Albert to play RT then it makes alot of sense to pass on him and take Cherilus who is a better RT but lacks the position flexability.
______________
#45 overall, Jordon Dizon LB out of Colorado 6'0 (229 pounds) was the pick, a prospect many considered a natural Tampa Two LB many had going to a team like the Colts, Bucs, or Bears in the late 2nd to 3rd rounds, its pretty clear the Lions felt they had to take him before those teams had a chance, they took him at #45 most would consider at least small reach.
A very active LB, with good instincts to react, and the on the field mental ability to read keys quickly and isdisiplined in his assignments, but his downside is size, strength, and lack elite speed at only 6'0, 230 and lifting 225 pounds 21 times at the combine, and a 40 time of 4.7. My main concern is his lack of forced turnovers considering all the plays he was involved in, 3 FF and 2 INTs in 48 career games, points to his lack of ball skills and ability to make hard hits on ball carriers.
He might be a somewhat limited athlete but he is a tough, productive, and smart football player, to me he might finally be a guy that can learn and play the Tampa Two MLB position effectively, not likely be a elite T2 MLB like Urlacher or Brooks, but should play sound coverage, not blow many assignments, and be a hustle guy.
Through the end of the 2nd round I and most fans were watching the available RBs and waiting for a trade up, with Matt Forte already gone at #63, and Ray Rice being the next guy likely to be taken, but the trade never came, Ray Rice was taken at #55 by the Ravens.
________________
At #64 through a trade up the Lions selected Central Florida RB Kevin Smith, 6'1 (217 pounds).
Noted because he came within 184 yards of Barry Sanders single season yardage record, he was a very productive college RB, a more slashing style RB that uses his footwork, body angle, and motion to juke, side step, and cut in traffic to make defenders miss and to catch defenders on blocks. Runs with decent vision and good patience to use blocks, Good at twisting and contorting his body to wiggle through small holes in short yardage situations.
His downside is he lacks the elite speed to flat outrun faster defenders, his constant shifting and fancy footwork make him easy for tacklers to trip up, and you will see alot of diving defenders get to his lower body and cause him to lose balance, which also points to a lack of lower body strength. Dispite his size he is not a power RB, although he can put a shoulder into a defender for a few extra yards in the open field, he does not have the ability to drag defenders, push a pile, or run through a defender, he prefers to try to make the defender miss and if that fails he simply puts his shoulder into the defender and leans forwards for a extra yard or two.
Could be a productive NFL RB, he clearly has his limitations, but probably the best choice they could make at RB at that point clearly.
_____________
Three glaring needs, three picks to shore up those needs, and the first OL player to be selected in the top two rounds by the Lions since 2001, a welcome change to a Lions draft in my opinion.
» LRZ Original
Anthony B. Irvine, a.k.a. Sanders97
www.LionsRedzone.com
April 18, 2008
In an effort to remove my name from the top of the main page and the likeness to a fond pet name that I have for a certain head coach, I’d like to contribute an update to the main page of this site. As you can see, it’s appropriately entitled, “My Obsession”.
Let me start off by saying, I’m not impressed. DUH!!! Who could be? I understand that I am probably more negative than the average fan, but seriously; who can honestly say that the Lions have done anything impressive in recent memory? Even the most impressive win of the season, against Denver, soon became a farce as the Lions melted away to complete another losing season. Six and two to one and seven. No matter how you add it up or how you switch up the scenarios, it still equals seven and nine, which is still a losing record. I’m reminded of the first year Bill Parcells broke .500 ball with the Cowboys. His exact words were, “you can’t call them losers anymore”. How nice would it be to hear those words muttered about our Lions? Hmmmm……
Anyway, awaking from my daydream.
As we move from another failed season into the normally dormant time of year known as the offseason; a.k.a, the most wonderful time of the year for our Lions, talk has slowed a bit. We all still scour the web and the ESPN bottom line or NFL Network for tidbits of information, but topics are a little scarce right now. However, call me a bit egotistical, but I believe it’s fans like me, whether you like me or not, that help make this time of year a little more interesting. That said, I’m beginning to realize just how different I am from the average Lions fan.
I understand it completely that most fans still want something to hold on to. I understand that the average football fan in general will look for positives rather than negatives. However, I find this phenomenon interesting, given the circumstances that Lions fans have been exposed to. Is it a matter of self preservation? Could it be said that the suicide rate in Michigan would sky rocket if most fans were as focused on the negative as I am? Perhaps, but I think a more realistic result would be that fans would begin to notice the reality of the situation and start spending their emotions, and like-wise their money, elsewhere. In fact, I have begun this very journey myself in “The Ultimate Ultimatum”.
Yeah, yeah. I know. I’m not a “real” fan and I must be some kind of nut to place a time table on my fan-hood. Save it. I’ve heard it all before. The simple truth of the matter is this, and I’ve said it many times before. Lions fans deserve better than they’ve received from this organization. We’ve all suffered the downs and downs (that’s right, I didn’t say ups) of the last seven years. We’ve all hung in for what we hoped would be a turn around. We’ve all invested some form of emotion and money in this team. What is our return? Some have argued that the quality time with family can not be replaced. I disagree. I think naked paintball without protection could be less painful, especially if family were involved. Surely your own family would be more merciful on you than the Lions have recently been.
I digress. The “Ultimate Ultimatum”” is a promise to spare myself any more of this grief beyond the 2010 season if the Lions can not manage to find some form of success before then. It’s already been seven years. If giving them three more isn’t enough, I seriously do not want to stick around to see how much longer it will take. After over a half century without a championship and working on a decade straight of losing football, what solid evidence is there for any form of hope?
My fan-hood has been called into question many times before this and it’s been called into question regarding this as well. I’m sure it will continue to be fuel for those who like to categorize fans. However, I say it would serve many well to give this idea some thought. Am I really any less of a fan? Can my passion not be present, even in scorn? Finally, and most importantly, is asking for a return to respectability within a ten year period of time asking too much?
So, in wrapping up, I say this. As the Lions stumble through free agency and the draft, when the heat of the arguing reaches its peak amongst fans and “non-fan’s” alike, as our coaches and all their relatives……..oh yeah…..they’re coaches as well…..continue spewing all the politically correct, double-talk, remember that the passion in argument all has common ground. No vocal participant can be labeled complacent because complacency is indicated by silence. When we fall silent is when we lose our passion. Feel free to disagree all you want, and by all means, engage in heated discussion. It might be all that’s productive when it comes to the Lions. Just don’t call anybody’s fan-hood into question just because you disagree with where they’re coming from. It’s simply not so.
Well, at least not until 2010.
» LRZ Original
Tony's MORONeli
The Failure of the DLine
by LAW
12 DEC 07
www.LionsRedZone.com
When Marinelli was hired as coach, numerous stories came out on how he "coached up" the defensive line of Tampa Bay and how brought out the best in S. Rice. The defensive line was his strength and was one of the few strengths of the Lions when Marinelli took over the team. So what has happened since these two combined?
Not much.
One of Marinelli's first impacts on the Lions was retaining Kalimba Edwards. It was reported that Edwards signed a five-year, $20 million contract, with $8 million in guarantees. In Marinelli's first year Edwards was not an impact, so what happened during the off-season? In an article in the Detroit News, Marinelli was quoted, "I'm going to smother him with coaching...He's got to be a double-digit sack guy. I've told him, 'I'm putting it on me. I'm putting it on you. The expectations are there.' " The expectations were there, but the production has not been. In fact, Edwards was a healthy scratch for the last game against the Cowboys.
Well not everyone can be right all the time, I mean lets see what Marinelli has done with our Pro Bowl defensive tackle. Since the Broncos game Rogers has posted zero sacks and only five tackles. Rogers statistically has declined since Marinelli began coaching the Lions, having a much better season in 2005 than the injury shortened 2006 and now 2007. Playing one more game in 2005 than so far in 2007, Rogers had thirteen more solo tackles in 2005. It is not expected that Rogers will get these thirteen solo tackles against the Chargers. Rogers has also been criticized as being lazy and out of shape this year, playing at a weight of 368 pounds. In the 2006 season, Rogers underwent knee surgery and never returned to the field although it was expected he would be back for the end of the year. While it was thought the Lions did not rush Rogers back in 2006, it was expected he would be healthy in 2007. This was not the case as Rogers did not participate in many off-season drills and is continually bothered by his knee. It is not surprising that he continues to have knee problems when he weighs in at over 360 pounds. Rogers conditioning was recently made unmistakably evident during the Cowboys game. Rogers was not in the game at crucial points, invoking criticism from announcer Troy Aikman. Marinelli has defended his out of shape defensive tackle by stating that platooning of the defensive line requires Rogers to come out of the game and that his knee more so than his conditioning prevents him from playing, but would you not have your star defensive tackle on the field for a fourth and goal line from the one?
Even off the field Rogers has faced trouble and scrutiny. During the off season Rogers was alleged to assault a stripper and although no criminal chargers were brought, Rogers is facing a civil suit filed by the stripper.
It is now being reported in the Detroit media that both Rogers and Edwards may not be back from the 2008 season.
So Marinelli has missed on 1/2 of his starting defensive line, he still can bat .500, can't he?
Unfortunately the defensive line guru struck out again this past off-season in the resigning of another lineman, this time Cory Redding. According to USAToday, "Marinelli called Redding constantly — every third day, every other day, whatever it took to recruit him and keep an open line of communication. Then Monday the Lions gave Redding a contract that, by some measures, makes him the highest-paid defensive tackle in the NFL. The seven-year deal is worth about $49 million. It includes about $16 million guaranteed and will pay him about $20 million over the first three years." Marinelli, according to the same USAToday article, did not seem worried about such a large contract, stating, "One thing I know and I believe: You can never overpay for the attitude, the effort, the want." What did the Lions get for this large contract? Another player with declining numbers. While Redding is only nineteen solo tackles away from his last year numbers, he has failed to record one sack after reaching a career high last year. The sixth highest paid player in the NFL this year has failed to be the impact that he was in 2006, with other teams now aware of him, he has been shut down.
So the Lions are 3/4 with there starting defensive line, can the Lions be 100%? No, Marinelli did bring in Dewayne White who has been an impact player when healthy. Still, isn’t a 25% a failing grade, especially for a defensive line guru?
The depressing fact is that the Lions can not even point to the future as being bright for their defensive line. While the Lions did trade down in the second round of the 2007 NFL Draft to take defensive end Ikaika Alama-Francis, nothing in Marinelli’s short career with the Lions has shown that he can develop talent. Francis has barely seen the field as a rookie. Former second round pick Shaun Cody’s picture could be found on the back of a milk cartoon as he has disappeared from the team and promising Bill Swancutt was cut from the team. If Rogers and Edwards are similarly released, the Lions will be forced to rebuild the defensive line while managing the dead cap left from these players.
In an article with the NFLHS, Marinelli was interviewed regarding coaching football. In the article, it states “Marinelli says an early key to success lies is the coach's ability to shore up the defensive line.”
Maybe Marinelli is right, and this explains the collapse of the Detroit Lions, but does not this also reflect on his abilities?
Where is the real problem on the Oline?
By Felix
March 9, 2008
www.lionsredzone.com
Recently, I have heard many people refer to Raiola as the key weakness of the Lions Oline.. I think those that absolutely hate him think I believe he is a great OC. That is not true. I believe he is an above-average to good OC. I know he is weaker as a drive-blocking OC but pass protects and gets to the second level well. Several years ago I thought he was horrible too, but have watched over the past two years as he has vastly improved.
I contend that those that think he is horrible have not really been watching. I can support my opinion by the fact he was voted as a probowl alternate. I know, I know, the probowl is a "popularity contest" and doesn't mean anything. I cant agree with that for a Lions OC. I seriously doubt he was a fan vote, that means he was voted for by coaches and players, and I think that says a lot. I can say Texan and I watched him a lot and commented on many good blocks he made, the detractors point to a missed block on 1 play in 2-3 games, or a short yardage play 3 years ago. Thats all fine, no good player is perfect on every single play.
I could also mention the announcers in at least 2 games commenting on how solid of a player he was and that if he wasn't on a losing team, he would be much better known. No answer ever comes of that. But I digress.
The following is some research I did just to try and quantify whether Raiola sucked, as some have claimed, or if he is indeed decent/good as I, and a few other have stated. While this research is by no means the end all, be all, I do believe it has provided some insights into the Lions Oline and where the weakness truly lie. At the least, I think it will be a good jump off place for some good discussion.
What I did is go through the play-by-play for each game and documented runs as either to the outside left, in the center (over OGs included here as some games differentiated between over G and other didn't, so I lumped them together), and the outside right. Just for ease, I included reverses as outside runs. I didn't include QB scrambles or sneaks. The results may not be 100% accurate, but they are probably pretty close. I think you may be a little surprised by the results, I know I was.
I will list the stats by the team played, carries and yds to the left side, carries and yards over center, and carries and yards to the right side. I will then total those at the bottom and then list the players and sacks they each allowed.
Raiders: 1 for 6, 13 for 74, 4 for 11
Vikings: 1 for -3, 9 for 2, 4 for 37
Eagles: 4 for 15, 3 for 11, 2 for 0
Bears: 9 for 23, 6 for 51, 7 for 24
Redskins: 2 for 9, 10 for 45, 4 for 11
Bucs: 7 for 46, 5 for 32, 8 for 60
Bears: 5 for 24, 14 for 74, 7 for 22
Broncos: 12 for 71, 4 for 24, 10 for 29
Cards: 3 for 0, 1 for -4, 2 for -14
Giants: 2 for 11, 3 for 11, 6 for 3
Packers: 15 for 87, 5 for 18, 8 for 20
Vikings: 1 for 4, 2 for 1, 2 for 18
Cowboys: 13 for 89, 8 for 27, 11 for 36
Chargers: 3 for 6, 2 for 2, 4 for 18
Chiefs: 10 for 60, 1 for 1, 16 for 68
Packers: 4 for 20, 4 for 8, 7 for 17
Totals:
Left side: 92 for 468 (5.1 avg)
Center: 90 for 377 (4.2 avg)
Right side: 102 for 360 (3.5 avg)
total: 284 for 1205 (4.2 avg)
Backus: 15.5 sacks, 16 games
Mulitalo: 5.5 sacks, 15 games
Raiola: 2 sacks, 16 games
Peterman: 3 sacks, 13 games
Foster: 11.25 sacks, 9 GS 15 games
Scott: 2 sacks, 2 GS 7 games
Woody: 1 sack, 8 GS 13 games
Saipaia: 3.25 sacks, 1 GS 14 games
Ok, so just to throw this out there, the Lions finished tied for 15th in the NFL in yds/attempt with 4.0 (but that includes QB runs, which I didn't include).
I don't know about you all, but I was a little surprised to see that the yds/carry was over 5 for the left side. I seemed to recall a lot of good runs in the middle of the Oline, so I was surprised to see the highest avg, by far, was on the left side.
Anyway, at least in my mind, I believe that this proves that Raiola is not as bad/weak as some make him out to be. Runs in the middle were right at the team average.
Take it how you want, but I think between a decent avg, announcers commentary, probowl votes and focusing on him during games (as opposed to just noticing the occasional mistake) proves that he is indeed better than "bad" as some describe him. I also think this data points to the RT position as by far the biggest weakness of the Oline. Not only is the right side very weak on the run, it gave up as many sacks as the LT.
Given this info, I would not be surprised at all to see a RT taken in the first round, or possibly the second. I also think that the surprising success of runs to the left side may substantiate the suggestion of some to draft a LT and move Backus to the right side. I never thought that was a good idea because I didn't think Backus was all that good of a run blocker, but the data suggest he may be our best run blocker, so perhaps moving him to the right side is a legitimate option.
» LRZ Original
Mr. Ford, Sell These Lions
by Honolulublue4life
2 DEC 07
www.LionsRedZone.com
Well here we are on a four game losing streak, and the playoffs quickly fading away. I'll give the Lions credit, they have stayed in it longer than usual, but usually the Lions always find a way to upset Lions fans. This time by falling apart right when they need to step it up.
You have to admit a lot of fans started buying in when they started off hot, some fans were real skeptical, and are now saying see we told you so. I had partially bought into it. I am an optimistic realist fan, I thought gee maybe they are turning the corner, but I also knew in the back of my mind, this is too good to be true.
These are the same Detroit Lions.
Lions' QB Jon Kitna said after the 42-10 loss to Minnesota that some of the players are not buying into it. Great, more locker room division. I thought the Lions said they got rid of that.
There are still some fans that think playoffs are a possibility, but as Jim Mora said best, Playoffs?! We'll be lucky to win a game.
Kitna said 10 wins, we'll be lucky to avoid 10 losses, nice try by Kitna to get the fans and team going but it isn't meant to be.
I could go on about Kitna's lack of accuracy, throwing interceptions at critical points, and ability to fumble the ball away too. Poor QB play has hurt Detroit many times.
But anyway on to two reasons why the Lions have remained brutal for so long.
Detroit Lions Team President and CEO Matt Millen has been quiet for the past few months, gee I wonder why? Maybe he knew that this was coming, he knew if he opened his mouth fans would become upset. He did the right thing, by remaining quiet, keeping the focus on the team.
Hopefully maybe he'll speak soon and announce his resignation.
Millen is 30-78 Since his hire on January 9, 2001. Fans have protested, chanted fire Millen, orange out, march, billboards, and a walkout, yet Ford has refused to fire him.
I was a key architect of the orange out and walk out. I should have know this was going to happen.
Millen has directly drove the Lions into the ground, it is showing up again how bad our talent is, we have none.
Millen has drafted bust after bust, and recently drafted the most hyped rookie in years in WR Calvin Johnson, who only has flashed a few signs of talent, but has been hurt the majority of time, while Minnesota Vikings RB Adrian Peterson dazzles everyone with his shifty moves and running over players.
Millen needs to go now, but that might not make a difference with who I think is the main person behind the Lions' struggles.
That leads us to this, Mr. William Clay Ford, owner of the Detroit Lions. Ford became the sole owner of the Detroit Lions in 1964, purchasing the franchise for $4.5 million from Dick Richards.
The Lions have won just one playoff game since he became the sole owner of the team, and have never reached the Super Bowl.
He has kept two GM's on for too long, Russ Thomas, and Millen. Thomas as general manager and chief negotiator from 1967 until his retirement in 1989 failed to get the Lions into the Super Bowl and had fans calling for his job as well.
Ford is loyal to a fault, and while he does care, and wants to win, and will pay money out.
Ford doesn't have a clue how to win, he constantly interferes with the GM telling the GM who to draft. For example Joey Harrington.
It's time for ownership change. We don't want Ford Jr. to take the team over, if he is like his dad, well it's just never going improve.
It starts now, chant sell the lions, stop going to games. Sell your tickets to the other teams fans. Turn your focus away from Millen and demand new ownership. The national media, as well as local media, need to get on board.
The time is now Lions fans. Stand up and demand action!
Images and content used on this site are used under the fair use provision of the Copyright Act for purposes of comment, criticism, humor and news reporting.
@ Oakland 
Minnesota 
@ Philadelphia
Chicago
@Washington 
Tampa Bay 
Denver 
@ Arizona 
NY Giants
Green Bay 
Dallas 
@San Diego
Kanas City 
